I'm thinking of who I was then and who I am now. I'm thinking of all the women in my life, and if each of them were asked, 'Would they prefer to be stranded in a forest with a bear or Marc?' As much as I want to say all of those women would have chosen me, I can't – some of them would have chosen the bear.
The work to unlearn all the messages I've internalized is lifelong. It feels even more urgent now that I have a son.
Mr Joseph , you are a one in a million emotionally intelligent human. A man that is a quintessential empath with a profound gift of expression. I pre ordered two of your upcoming poetry books, We alive, Beloved,” and look forward to the inspiration and empowerment your lyrical words will have on my grief journey. Thank you from your new fan, Jennifer♥️
All I can say is, exactly this. Exactly right. Just grateful for the (few?) men that hear women’s perspectives and more hopeful that a few more may take the time to try if they read wise words like these.
Besides the fact that people will not blame you and heap scorn upon you if the bear eats you, a bear can’t humiliate you, degrade you, or destroy your relationship to yourself and your body. If you survive you’ll have some trauma from the terror but you can’t be stripped of your value as a person by a bear.
I think people are correct though because you don’t have enough data. How hungry is the bear? What’s the man like?
This is such an interesting thought experiment when it comes to maximin principles where you try to minimize worst case scenarios. The worst man is worse than the worst bear. If you want to minimize the worst outcome choose the bear. But your odds of surviving an average man are probably higher than your odds of surviving a hungry grizzly just coming out of hibernation or a mama grizzly protecting cubs. Rationally speaking, it’s possibly better to choose the man if you’re just speaking odds of survival. But if the worst case scenario is at all likely, it’s preferable to be eaten by the bear.
Not worst case, average case. You're getting into the nitty gritty to claim "not enough info". That misses the point. Average bear vs average man chosen by the average woman? That is the way one treats a hypothetical when x or y isn't specified: X and Y are quantified as the mean.
I'll take the bear any day. Men are so controlled by their ego and their desire to appease and serve other men that women's well-being is just a thing they *enjoy* destroying on the altar of their own sad, wasted lives.
Say, I think a man would also take the bear. Except he will take the bear - or the outright devastation of his own entire species - over the simple truth.
I'd want to know a little bit more about bears, and how frequently they attack--I'd like to have at least some general info to calculate my odds of survival-- but I certainly do understand your reasoning. I've been in situations where I barely survived the violence of a man so personally, I fear men a lot more than I fear bears.
It's a good idea to look facts up before commenting. Check out the stats. We don't want to invoke the ancient demon known as Schrodinger's Rebuttal. Just bogs down the conversation.
In an ideal world, yes, othering is not ideal. I have had many amazing friends who are men, as well as having an amazing brother. I don’t think that’s what the man vs bear question is about, though. If you’ve been one of the fortunate ones who hasn’t been a victim of assault or had to endure a creepy brother, or other family members, like I and many women have, then good for you 🙏🏼 that makes me very happy to hear. I have never personally had any bad interactions with the police, yet I have seen and heard stories of police brutality and so I know the truth of what exists, even though it’s outside of my personal experience. In the face of hundreds of police brutality stories, I would not choose to mention that I have had positive encounters, because it’s not about me. It’s about me hearing from other’s experiences in order to understand the context. This is not an us vs them scenario. It’s about a truth that permeates how people feel safe or unsafe in society with men. Until I was assaulted way into my forties, I think I unconsciously and naively thought that because it hadn’t happened to me, I thought I was somehow “good” at self defense or whatever because of how I grew up as a tough city girl, but nothing could prepare me for the way I froze. And it happened at work, not a forest. It was a place I was supposed to be safe at. My body cringes at any man who comes within a foot of me now and that’s a physical response outside of my control. I never used to feel that way. So yeah, ideally, othering is not where we hope to be. In this case, it’s about who the “other” is and if they want to participate in this question of truly understanding this question. We oftentimes have to take ourselves out of the equation when we don’t understand something and ask why so many are choosing the bear. I was abused by my other brother for years and his voice was louder and so nothing was ever done about him stopping. I was muted until I was an adult. It’s less about othering and demanding that our voices be allowed to exist. It’s always “not all men,” but it’s mostly men who perpetrate the most violence and who shut down the voices who speak up against them.
Really good points, and the men that came to mind were men I've known for years who haven't been abusive. I get that once someone's been abused the feeling of safety is gone, and there's an uncontrollable, visceral reaction.
It's not just the "feeling" of safety being gone. It's the gained understanding that the *reality* of living in serious danger *has always been there* and that it's not going away. You are in danger around men, like it or not. If you know a man but have not seen him white hot furious? Then you don't know what he is capable of. The neighbors always say "he seemed so nice!"
Sure he did. Until he ended the lives of his wife and children.
The men you are referencing as good are people that a more critical thinker could hang out with for a matter of minutes before noticing that they are interrupting women or making jokes at women's expense or negging women, etc etc. If you are used to it and you are comparing it to the more serious crimes men commit 99% of (the violent ones), then yes, you will rush to the defense of the men you have around you. It's much less painful than taking careful stock.
Men are dangerous. They admit it when they tell their daughters to stay in public and be careful and always keep a phone nearby when going out on a date with a boy or man. Yet the second a woman repeats their exact script, it's "nuh huh male people are fine the 'genders' need to stop blaming each other!!1"
We will continue to openly blame the perpetrator. Any man who will not do so is just another dangerous man.
I agree with all of your points, and notice that men are particularly socialized to treat women in shitty ways, even if they're not physically abusive.
And it's abhorrent that people believe the men and not the women almost all the time.
And I don't rush to the defence of men, but acknowledge that there are some that I've learned to trust over a long period of time.
What will it take for men to support each other in their need to be such bad actors? Because I hope we can get to a truly egalitarian society where we can trust each other.
I'm thinking of who I was then and who I am now. I'm thinking of all the women in my life, and if each of them were asked, 'Would they prefer to be stranded in a forest with a bear or Marc?' As much as I want to say all of those women would have chosen me, I can't – some of them would have chosen the bear.
The work to unlearn all the messages I've internalized is lifelong. It feels even more urgent now that I have a son.
Mr Joseph , you are a one in a million emotionally intelligent human. A man that is a quintessential empath with a profound gift of expression. I pre ordered two of your upcoming poetry books, We alive, Beloved,” and look forward to the inspiration and empowerment your lyrical words will have on my grief journey. Thank you from your new fan, Jennifer♥️
All I can say is, exactly this. Exactly right. Just grateful for the (few?) men that hear women’s perspectives and more hopeful that a few more may take the time to try if they read wise words like these.
Thank you for this. Yes.
Thank you, this is perfectly beautiful 🙏🏼
Thanks as always Fred ❤️ #TeamBear
❤️🔥🙏🏼
Besides the fact that people will not blame you and heap scorn upon you if the bear eats you, a bear can’t humiliate you, degrade you, or destroy your relationship to yourself and your body. If you survive you’ll have some trauma from the terror but you can’t be stripped of your value as a person by a bear.
I think people are correct though because you don’t have enough data. How hungry is the bear? What’s the man like?
This is such an interesting thought experiment when it comes to maximin principles where you try to minimize worst case scenarios. The worst man is worse than the worst bear. If you want to minimize the worst outcome choose the bear. But your odds of surviving an average man are probably higher than your odds of surviving a hungry grizzly just coming out of hibernation or a mama grizzly protecting cubs. Rationally speaking, it’s possibly better to choose the man if you’re just speaking odds of survival. But if the worst case scenario is at all likely, it’s preferable to be eaten by the bear.
Not worst case, average case. You're getting into the nitty gritty to claim "not enough info". That misses the point. Average bear vs average man chosen by the average woman? That is the way one treats a hypothetical when x or y isn't specified: X and Y are quantified as the mean.
I'll take the bear any day. Men are so controlled by their ego and their desire to appease and serve other men that women's well-being is just a thing they *enjoy* destroying on the altar of their own sad, wasted lives.
Say, I think a man would also take the bear. Except he will take the bear - or the outright devastation of his own entire species - over the simple truth.
I'd want to know a little bit more about bears, and how frequently they attack--I'd like to have at least some general info to calculate my odds of survival-- but I certainly do understand your reasoning. I've been in situations where I barely survived the violence of a man so personally, I fear men a lot more than I fear bears.
It's a good idea to look facts up before commenting. Check out the stats. We don't want to invoke the ancient demon known as Schrodinger's Rebuttal. Just bogs down the conversation.
I don't like those kinds of choices, and it depends on who the man is. Some of my friends are men, and I'd enjoy their company in a forest.
I think genders need to stop othering each other, and treat people like the human beings they are.
In an ideal world, yes, othering is not ideal. I have had many amazing friends who are men, as well as having an amazing brother. I don’t think that’s what the man vs bear question is about, though. If you’ve been one of the fortunate ones who hasn’t been a victim of assault or had to endure a creepy brother, or other family members, like I and many women have, then good for you 🙏🏼 that makes me very happy to hear. I have never personally had any bad interactions with the police, yet I have seen and heard stories of police brutality and so I know the truth of what exists, even though it’s outside of my personal experience. In the face of hundreds of police brutality stories, I would not choose to mention that I have had positive encounters, because it’s not about me. It’s about me hearing from other’s experiences in order to understand the context. This is not an us vs them scenario. It’s about a truth that permeates how people feel safe or unsafe in society with men. Until I was assaulted way into my forties, I think I unconsciously and naively thought that because it hadn’t happened to me, I thought I was somehow “good” at self defense or whatever because of how I grew up as a tough city girl, but nothing could prepare me for the way I froze. And it happened at work, not a forest. It was a place I was supposed to be safe at. My body cringes at any man who comes within a foot of me now and that’s a physical response outside of my control. I never used to feel that way. So yeah, ideally, othering is not where we hope to be. In this case, it’s about who the “other” is and if they want to participate in this question of truly understanding this question. We oftentimes have to take ourselves out of the equation when we don’t understand something and ask why so many are choosing the bear. I was abused by my other brother for years and his voice was louder and so nothing was ever done about him stopping. I was muted until I was an adult. It’s less about othering and demanding that our voices be allowed to exist. It’s always “not all men,” but it’s mostly men who perpetrate the most violence and who shut down the voices who speak up against them.
Really good points, and the men that came to mind were men I've known for years who haven't been abusive. I get that once someone's been abused the feeling of safety is gone, and there's an uncontrollable, visceral reaction.
It's not just the "feeling" of safety being gone. It's the gained understanding that the *reality* of living in serious danger *has always been there* and that it's not going away. You are in danger around men, like it or not. If you know a man but have not seen him white hot furious? Then you don't know what he is capable of. The neighbors always say "he seemed so nice!"
Sure he did. Until he ended the lives of his wife and children.
The men you are referencing as good are people that a more critical thinker could hang out with for a matter of minutes before noticing that they are interrupting women or making jokes at women's expense or negging women, etc etc. If you are used to it and you are comparing it to the more serious crimes men commit 99% of (the violent ones), then yes, you will rush to the defense of the men you have around you. It's much less painful than taking careful stock.
Men are dangerous. They admit it when they tell their daughters to stay in public and be careful and always keep a phone nearby when going out on a date with a boy or man. Yet the second a woman repeats their exact script, it's "nuh huh male people are fine the 'genders' need to stop blaming each other!!1"
We will continue to openly blame the perpetrator. Any man who will not do so is just another dangerous man.
Yeah, that’s exactly right. Thank you for reading 🤍
I agree with all of your points, and notice that men are particularly socialized to treat women in shitty ways, even if they're not physically abusive.
And it's abhorrent that people believe the men and not the women almost all the time.
And I don't rush to the defence of men, but acknowledge that there are some that I've learned to trust over a long period of time.
What will it take for men to support each other in their need to be such bad actors? Because I hope we can get to a truly egalitarian society where we can trust each other.